Yuku free message boards

Duck on a Rock wrote:

---

stats man - all I can conclude from your statistics is we shoot the ball poorly and don't defend as well in losses. Call the NCAA and halt the presses! If teams don't shoot well and don't defend well, they have a greater chance of losing. Groundbreaking research!

Well Duck - I look at those stats and think a lot of things - I will just talk about the 3 pt shot selection for now

1) Why would Nored and Vanzant ever take a 3pt shot

2) Why do Veasley and Mack shoot so many 3pt shots ( lets face it, these guys should be shooting 2 or 3 max a game - Mack started hot last year but has been way under 30% for a long time and at the U19 tourney he was the worse 3pt shooter on the team - 6/27 or 22%, of any player that made a 3pt shot )

Last year Mack shot 57 - 175 3pt shots 65 - 137 2pt shots and 81 - 107 FT's
Last year Veasley shot 34 - 104 3pt shots 65 - 111 2pt shots and 52 - 75 FT's

These guys would make Butler so much tougher if they would drive more and get the ball inside ( Veasley 59%, Howard 56%, Hayward 52% even Mack 47% on 2 pt shots last year )

Also if these guys would take the ball inside I am sure they could hit 35%+ on the really good look 3's they would be getting.

I am rooting for Shawn, Shelvin and Ron big time, would be very upset if any decide to leave Butler or got hurt but I want them to understand how they help the team and how they hurt the team and be willing to do more of the positive and less of the negative.

I have a kid on my little league team that K's every time up, each time he comes back I tell him good try, but if I was playing to win I would tell him to never swing and hope for a walk ! I have listened to the coach say the same things you have, keep shooting and I want the kids confident but at some point the kid has to understand he is killing the team, maybe now that this team is getting older coach will change some things.

Mack 29 - 100 in conf play, 7 - 26 in AAU ( you dont have to count it ? but I do ) 36 - 126 28.5%

So the average is around 33% so you are okay with Butler being average - sorry I do not see this team as average

Nored does not shoot 50% from the FT line not being guarded - I am sure he will shoot better than last years 9 - 40, but it will still be way below average.

Vanzant 13 - 45 on the year and 0 for in those last 5 losses, he did go 2 - 3 in the 30 point home win over Wis Mil

When you lose games by 3 and 4 points it does not take much to change the outcome

Veasley I am not to worried about, but as a SR I would like to see him take charge and lead by example and 33% from 3 is not as good as 59% from 2.

Any of these players show they can do better in practice and hit some in games, great - shoot away.

Eddie Cabot wrote:

---

It's very easy to look at stats and draw conclusions when you know nothing about the game. Give me a play-by-play, and without seeing the game I can tell you that every shot Butler missed shouldn't have been taken. The fact is that on some nights, good shots taken by the right guys don't go in and well defended shots by the opponents do.

I agree on any given night, people can hit horrible shots and good shooters can miss great looks - Hahn was 0 - 4 on 3's vs Ohio St - each shot was perfect step up 3 and all went in and out - but over the whole season the stats do not lie and Hahn hit 40% +

I have season tickets and went to every home game last year, I went to NC for the NCAA Tourney, I watched every game on TV, HLN and if not on anything listen on the radio.

Only this U19 tourney am I looking at play by play

riksmits4prez wrote:

---

1. Welcome. Great first thread to start. People already have awesome opinions of you. Poast more.

Again, welcome to the board.

Thanks

Really happy to have found this board, it is great for getting info on the team

Great name - I live in Zionsville - every now and then my neck jerks up and I look over to see the gaint going by ( Rick Smits )

fired up karen wrote:

---

Stax, no, what you must add is that you disagree with Duck, you're just doing it indirectly.

These statistics are absolutely ridiculous. If only we could get seeds to visualize these in some sort of histogram or pie chart I might be able to make some sense of them.

1) Why would Nored and Vanzant ever take a 3pt shot.

I have to respond to this ludicrous statement. Everyone remembers Zach's shot to beat Cleveland St...no one remembers this...

link

"A 3-pointer by Zach Hahn with 1 second remaining gave unbeaten Butler a 50-48 victory over Cleveland State in a wild finish to a Thursday night game that had three lead changes in the final 19 seconds.

The winner came after a 3-pointer by Shawn Vanzant had given Butler a 47-46 leadwith 19 seconds left, and a layup by J'Nathan Bullock put Cleveland State ahead 48-47 with 5 seconds remaining."

...so like everyone else has stated, you have chosen a very small sample size to make a less than validated opinion about the population (entire style of Butler Basketball in your argument).

As for Ron, he has to take that shot to keep defenses honest. If he merely never shoots, defenders can play off him 4 or 5 feet, clog up the lane, etc. This is simple logic. Furthermore, I think Ron will surprise you with his shot this year. Just my opinion.

That was a huge shot for the team ( not saying it was the shot I was looking for the team to get at the point )

I will even take my statement back that Nored and Vanzant should never shoot a 3 - but they should be limited for now

As for Ron taking 3's so players do not play 4 or 5 feet off him - that is the problem for Butler each time he shoots that 3 and misses that guy just keeps getting to lay back even further. It is funny to me that sometimes people think what bad defense, they just let that guy get a wide open 3 ( it was the game plan )